selling paper toys: a discussion on nicepapertoys.com and my own personal impressions
Marshall clued me in on a vibrant discussion thread currently on NicePaperToys.com - with regards to the concept of "Selling Paper Toys" (a question posed by Ben The Illustrator, creator of Speakerdogs).
Nigh thought-provoking read, IMHO.
/// CLICK THRU for my personal incoherent-ramble, if you so please :p
Personnally I feel that the (Designer/Urban) Papertoy-"scene" / community is a delightful "abnormally" in this commercially-saturated Toy-(Sub)-Culture - whereby creative works and ideas are available for FREE (amidst the worldwideweb) for anyone to download and use. And in many instances one of the more readily collaborative platforms for designers to trade ideas and concepts, while utilizing each other's templates. Such is the allure of the papertoy-culture, for an amateur enthusiast like me :)
For the end-user - Papertoys are perhaps an "effort-based" hobby - whereby there is the need to print out, cut and paste, to achieve the final product, as opposed to say; having to physically leaving the house and going down to the toy-shop to saite thy toy-desires and needs (with a heap-dash of *ker-ching*), or even a "add-to-cart" instant-gratifying click away (multiple browser windows opened for online auctions, notwithstanding :p).Unfortunately, I'm the schmuck whose printer is perpetually dead (at least for printing color, and I can hardly afford a new one) and the sad part of it all is, with all my blog-features of papertoys, I've not had the privilege and pleasure of printing any out and making them! ...and that, is just plain effin' sad ... so I make do with empty toilet-paper-cores, innit? *sob*
The next evolutionary commercial-step, I reckon, is to perhaps provide the consumer / end-user with something more than what they are able to do on their own now (which is to simply download online and print out the templates on their personal color-printers). Provide a higher-quality printout on better / higher grade paper (as Matt Hawkins had done, eg. Mechanical Man) and perhaps even explore print enhancing processes like embossing or spot-varnish. Enrich the tactile quality of the product, perhaps? A3-sized print outs are fab too. But of course these do entail an investment of finances, as well as commitment of time and effort for the execution.
Or at the end of the day, it could just well be a swell poster of a template, yeh? heh. (a holdover from my foolish days of collecting Trading Cards, where I'd also collect uncut poster-images of said trading cards :p)
The recent Dookie-Poo Paper Jam contest that I'd run on TRE recently was an experiment bourne from Manny Galan's concept to incorporate paper-play with his existing Dookie-Poo vinyl figures. Perhaps an exploration into crossovers with other toy-genres?
Papertoys provide a level of "playability", moreso compared to "collectibility", IMHO. Tear away the thin veneer of secondary market speculation, and you have something disposable (altho that may mean less "valued") - and hence not need too much of an (financial) investment, but yet fun to have. Too many a times the collectible toy market crosses the murky line of "dollar value", which perhaps dilute the "art" - but on the other hand, does provide a source of income? (Sustainable-Secondary, or Primary).Deny not the "power" of creation, I say! - Least of all in the hands of the end-user ... The satisfaction of a papertoy well made compared to a toy-score online or at events / shows / shops? Or am I alone in this notion?
What I envision and would love to see is a scenario whereby an entire community gathers to erect a whole dioramic Paper-City, populated with everyone's paper-creations :)
*Disclaimer: Do pardon my incoherent ramblings (thy fetid mind doesn't churn as smooth at 4am in the morning :p), as I let my train-o-thought run wild first, and perhaps revisit this blog-post with renewed clarity, and perhaps add my reply unto the NicePaperToys-thread when I make more sense - heh*
Thanks for the supporting words on the papertoy scene. I feel we are currently at a turning point, where papertoy designers are getting aware of how popular designer papertoys have become lately. You see people discussing copyright issues, plagiarism, making money from your papertoys, etcetera. I hope the open culture of the papertoy scene will stay and we will not get too absorbed by the commercial side of things, but on the other hand it will be interesting to see what people come up with to transfer a papertoy from a 'downloadable freebie' to a sellable product.
ReplyDeleteYour papercity concept would be a very cool thing to see, if it ever happens, count me in. In Matt Hawkins upcoming papertoy book he came up with a similar cool idea, where different papertoy designers contributed different body parts to a giant papertoy where nobody knows what each others part will look like :)
Anyway, it's fantastic to see the papertoy getting attention on blogs like TOYSREVIL, next to its big vinyl brother. Thanks for the support.
Cheers,
Marshall
P.S. I think the toiletpaper core Viper is still one of the best papermodels around :)
"P.S. I think the toiletpaper core Viper is still one of the best papermodels around :)
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I disagree, the Bertie rocks way harder, but to the pointmobile:
I've ventured into making paper models into a product rather than a mere download - I wasn't aware of the "rules" of the designer toy scene when I made my Antlor kits - I was aware of them when I made the Global Warning polar bear (which is that poster idea you talked about) - but the truth is that these have not sold well in toy circles - the market was amongst design conscious non-toy collectors - the people who read "Frame".
A lot of toy peeps were, I think, used to the idea that paper toys are free - another possibility could be that the designs don't appeal to them and - in the case of Global Warning - the item wasn't priced. I think treating paper toys like a proper product makes sense - Antlor comes bagged in zip-lock bags - body bags and the "save the animals" theme is enhanced by the fact that they're environmentally friendly printed.
There's a lot that can be done with the paper concept, I'm enjoying on/off talks with Nick (creator of MOD:1) about how to make sustainable toys as ours is a globally messy hobby.
Paper city would be close to my heart, having taught a semester of architecture, I'm left scarred and most things I design are like buildings which in turn makes me think of that scene in "Big" where Tom Hanks disses the toy comp. executives because they want to make a Transformer that turns into a house.
sorry for the rant.
@Marshall > Papertoys are poised for the next evolutionary step, be it via a commercial level or even heightened awareness and frankly, given due recognition for it's art / craft / design, IMHO.
ReplyDeletePerhaps to the generic masses it could be mistakenly viewed to be just pure "arts and craft" - rather than a design-aesthetic ... while to the pop culture global community, it literally is an emerging subculture that actually defies the norm - free trading in concepts and designs (via templates) - and as you've mentioned, it's not just fun and passion, but with the added dimension of copyright issues etc - which to me, is ever more beyond the "norm" of commercial enterprise, which to the ignorant me, is predominanetly" "how many to sell" and "bootleggers keep away" LOL :p
and man, i cant wait to see the result of the giant papertoy for Matt's book! (my only contribution being writing the foreword :p)
p/s: thanks for the Viper-comment! (sadly, it now lays in shambles, with a plan to paint multiple versions of; throw out the window LOL)
@Kenn >
ReplyDeleteoh man, i really, really miss FRAME. I devoured them like a madmen when i was more active in my "previous life" (and had more disposable income compared to thezero income i have now LOL). Frame was "design" (3-dimensional) versus "lifestyle" mags like WALLPAPER ...
.. and with what you had mentioned, it reminds me of a faint notion that perhaps papertoys actually do transcend the label of "toy" and may perhaps appeal more to "design" (versus "art") - not just in terms of the literal 2-D quality of it (pre-fold) but of the process in which it was "created" (ie: vector art/design) at least in it's initial template stage.
as a "commercial product" to the (vinyl) "toy-converts", it may not appeal as much (dollar-value mindmuck at work), compared to it offered to "design-disciples", IMHO -who may embrace it more.
and you're right, the label of papertoys as "free downloadables" is prevailant and has become an accepted norm (and welcomed by cheap-assed buggers like me LOL :p) ...
i'd initially wanted to mention "elevate the level of papertoys" - but perhaps that may not be fair and true, in this instance. perhaps it is not about berating the lack of status of papertoys, but perhaps exploring other venues for promoting papertoys?
A Cityscape has always been a dream of mine, borne from a desire to organize a 1/6th-scaled toy convention in Singapore (like that will EVER had) whereby different kitbashers and customizers could create their own groups of people populating built structures in the context of a city, or at least a town.
SWAT storming a bank robbery in process. Street Vendors peddling their wares in a wet market etc
In a papercity, each creator creates his own store / shop built-up diorama, with the connecting street/s populated by a mix of everyone's creation, driving around in paper-cars, cycling, hovercrafts and blimps overhead ... one day, one day ... :)
and please, NO sorries for ranting, Kenn - rant ahead! i personnally do not want my blog to remain a "bulletin board blog" forever ... LOL
Well since no one is knocking down my door to do a vinyl toy, a paper toy makes perfect since. I did a pretty cool little skummie guy and it didn't cost me dime one. Other then the time it takes to draw all four sides of everything it wasn't to big of a hassle. I'm more then happy to let people build my paper toy for FREE, in fact I'm stoked when someone takes the time to build my design!
ReplyDeleteI think the 'selling paper toys' debate will run and run, and generally seems dependant on what's being sold and if it's a step up in quality, like Kenn Munk's packs, where the buyer is getting something worthwhile, which they couldn't download and print out for free at home (due to page sizes etc).
ReplyDeleteWhat I am interested in from these few posts here, is the views on how the paper toy scene is transcending itself, considered as toys, art, design, craft, etc etc. Here's my view from my own experience...
My wife and I created, developed and manage the Speakerdog Paper Toy project, we love doing it, however it can always only ever be an enjoyable sideline to our commissioned illustration work and prints and posters which we produce and sell. It is a chance for us to crossover with a huge variety of artists around the world and put numerous pieces of free design out for the public to enjoy. The artists who want to design Speakerdogs are really varied, we have the usual cool kids who are into vinyl toys or current art scenes etc, but we also have plenty of recognised illustrators, professionals, whose day jobs are illustrating childrens books, editorial etc etc, we also have fine artists, some more traditional than you'd think, we also have graf artists, who's lives evolve around putting their artwork into the world to be enjoyed by the public at no cost, we have graphic designers and typographers, doodlers and part-timers, students, kids and teachers.
And then on the flipside, we have our downloaders, the fans of the paper toys, a bunch of people who are perhaps even more varied, we have the obvious young art and design fans and fanatics, aspiring illustrators, vinyl toy collectors etc etc, but we also have little kids who make them with their folks help, we have office workers who share them around their business desks, we have schoolkids who give them to eachother as free gifts, we have kooky people of all ages who just want to add colour and form to their homes, we get adult, mature design lovers, readers of FRAME(!). It surprises us how far the paper toys reach, it really does.
We're very proud of our own paper toy project, and we have a lot of love for designers like Kenn Munk, Shin Tanaka and Matt Hawkins for leading the developments. It is an art form, and it is reaching more people than most art forms, that can only be a good thing.
That for me, is the beauty of it all, that a design project can go beyond it's cosy little circle and be enjoyed, relished and participated in by people anywhere of all ages and styles.
The paper toy scene may still be fairly young, and some people may think it's not 'cool' or whatever, but there's some fantastic fresh creativity going on and those involved or interested know how exciting and enjoyable it all is. When Matt Hawkins' book comes out next year, things can only move even further upwards, more people, more creativity, more art, more design, more exciting opportunities.
So, as for selling paper toys, if someone is good at what they do, and would like to keep doing it, they may have to make some cash out of it to pay some bills and give them some time to take their art further, however if they want to keep it as pure, heart and soul 'art' to be enjoyed by everyone, paper toys will have to continue to be essentially and predominantly free to all.
Well, my point was that these "packs" I did don't appeal to the toy crowd, but to another design-interested crowd. I think the toy-crowd is reluctant to pay for paper toys.
ReplyDeleteI don't think that the paper toy crowd are reluctant to pay for toys, as long as they see some added value above a PDF download.
ReplyDeleteThere are several different revenue models which may provide an income, without alienating the artist from the community.
You could provide a free PDF download for a model, and charge for models printed in high quality, on special paper or signed, limited editions.
You could charge for the first (say) 50 downloads of a model, then allow it to be downloaded for free.
You could allow one model from a collection to be downloaded for free each month.
You could provide special offers or exclusive models to 'paying customers only'.
I've been thinking about this issue for some time, and I'm glad that the community is discussing it. I don't know if any of these suggestions are viable or not, but it'd be interesting to find out.
not really curious about what other people do with time and money, but I have to say the same way children ask mommy and daddy for a piece of candy is just as simple as asking "i want that paper toy", this is from experience(ExperiBreed) being I go through this everyday with my children and I don't have a problem with it.
ReplyDeleteno credit card you say?...well, we have paypal, and money orders to pursue our happiness as well.
this is 2008...you say: Just an art?...wow, you must be a machine.
you stated that paper toys are a medium between people and us?...we are all people, and I feel the art is more of the medium here itself, and thats what justifies us as people and individuals who want!....we all want, but sometimes we can not get what we want...right shin?
when you have 4 mouths to feed, then let me know what should we charge for something so priceless as art...only God and my family have witnessed me giving art away for free, but that can't buy my kids a lunch card or pay the gas bills...you see when your passion gets involved there's nothing you can do about it, so we give it away, but when the truth of reality sets in, well...you can't run away from it because it appears to be hiding on you in every corner you look in.
so, if you charge for a vinyl, t-shirt, pants, sneakers, why not art itself, this defeats the whole purpose of being an artist.
sneakers cost less then $5.00, so why are we paying $100-$250 for one pair?..art my friend.......art.